Fat Pagan Pride

[pt_tangles]

I know I shouldn't have, but I have been reading the blow-up about the 'Pagan Obesity Problem' and the equally hyperbolic responses that claim that any mention of obesity causing health problems is body shaming and that obesity isn't really a health problem, it's a discrimination problem and if everyone would 'mind your business', then everything would be magical and puppies would shoot out of rainbow unicorn asses.

Uh, yeah.  Calling absolute bullshit on that one.  You are never going to convince me (no matter how many interwebz links you find) that being morbidly obese is healthy.  Your skeleton was not meant to carry 400+ lbs for 70+ years.  There have been multiple studies that show that things like cholesterol aren't weight related, they are gene and diet related.  That's old news.  But that isn't the only measure that decides if a person is healthy.

Also, if I read one more Fat Pride article that says, "I tried starving myself on an 800 calorie a day diet and exercise around the clock, and I didn't lose any weight', I think I will scream.  How can you live in such a tiny bubble that you don't know that starvation diets cause you to gain weight rather than lose it.  Your body is programmed to store fat to save your life in the case that food sources become scarce.  The minimum daily caloric intake for women is about 1200 calories a day (I know this because my journalling app kept yelling at me when I was too sick to eat much of anything for about a week - also, I looked it up).

And you know what?  Assuming that everyone who thinks that obesity is unhealthy is trying to shame you is not Fat Pride.  It's not any kind of pride.  It's a defence mechanism built upon years of hurt feelings.  Spitting venom at the 'norms' or whatever you want to call the 'others who aren't your kind of other', is not the way to deal with hurts.  It's not activism.  It's not pride.  

I'd say that it's about time that both extremes of this issue 'get over themselves'.

Comments

[elf]

I have hit a point of both "I am not happy with my shape, because the clothes I like don't fit and clothes that fit aren't available in the styles I like" and "I am not happy with my size, because I get tired too easily and my feet hurt all the time."

I am not worried about cholesterol, blood pressure, sugar/insulin balance, or vitamin deficiencies, although I assume all of those could be improved. I don't have health problems per se related to my weight... but I do have quality-of-life problems.

And dammit, it's *hard* to find a lose-weight-and-size plan that doesn't have a goal of "become a Size 4 Athlete in six months!!!" or isn't related to specific health issues. There isn't a plan for "I want to fit into my renfaire costume comfortably." There's a whole lot of "if you're not planning on becoming a toothpick, you're a failure as a woman" and, on the other side, "how DARE you not CELEBRATE YOUR BEAUTY as you are now!!! No self-shaming!"

Um. I am not ashamed of my size & shape; I'm just not happy with them. I know how I got this way--I got a desk job, and I stopped going dancing once a week and didn't replace it with anything else. I can't just reverse that; my schedule doesn't allow it anymore. Which is not the same as "this is my natural shape." This is not my natural shape; this is my lazy-and-reclusive shape. The fact that there are other people of my height and weight who are comfortable with that, doesn't make my situation less unhealthy.

[pj]

I used to have a nervous foot rocking thing. I either rocked at the knee or shook at the ankle. I remember it drove my mum nuts that I "just could not sit still". I retaught myself not to do it when I became a manager years ago and was required to sit in meetings and "look professional". Hands folded in lap and feet still. I started to put on weight. Seriously, I did! So, if you;ve no time for dance you may want to try to create a habit of foot rocking and see if it removes any calories.

Yes, I do realize how ridiculous that sounds, but that was the only thing that had changed. Now I sit on my ass far too much for my age and caloric intake, but that came about in the last couple of years, not the first 10 pounds.

[elf]

Thanks, but, um, no. I don't twitch when I'm sitting. I do the opposite of twitching. I can type at the computer it the same position for so long that when I do move, I get disoriented because my inner ear has reset to the position I was in.

It's not so much "no time to dance" as "can't dance from 9-11 pm on Monday nights," which is when it's held at the place I used to dance. Can't stay up that late anymore. (I'm often up that date, but I can't be *active* that late and then deal with public transit to get home.) So I should maybe look around and find some other dance group/meeting/something that happens weekend afternoons or early weekday evenings. Wouldn't be Irish ceilidh dancing, but I'm not picky about that part.

I've considered getting one of those walking-exercise things for the house, because there's nowhere nearby that's remotely pleasant for just walking, and I could put a shelf on it for my ereader. (Part of me thinks "NO! You should be outside IN NATURE, not exercising in your house!" and another part thinks, "You should be EXERCISING, which is more important than location. It's not like you're considering spending less time outside in order to exercise.")

[pj]

LOL on the "um, no". I can't recreate the habit myself. Whatever it was in me that caused it has long since vacated the premises. I need to find a new way.

I think you should do whatever is easiest to do for getting the exercise you wish. I engage in the self-sabotage of where and how my exercise being so important that I remain on my ass. I have it down pat and fighting that has thus far still been unsuccessful as I prefer *anything* to focused repetitive time slots of exercise.

[pt_tangles]

I have that same problem when I look to indoor exercising. It feels like cheating because I'm not outside. I get the same feeling when I'm indoors on a nice day. Like I'm taking it for granted by not being out there all day when it's nice.

[pt_tangles]

I read somewhere that people who fidget apparently have less weight problems in general than those who don't. Weird, eh?

[pj]

Every movement expends energy. People who fidget are rarely still and that adds up. Plus fidgeting when the urge struck had psychological benefit for me as it released nervous energy.

[pt_tangles]

Yeah. I was really heavy all through my 20s. I started to pack it on after my mom died. And even though I had doctors telling me that I was healthy, I knew deep down that I wasn't.

I had asthma problems that made exercising extremely difficult, chronic back pain, migraines, and I had one cold or another for years on end. That's not healthy despite what blood tests say. In the end, my weight issues were a symptom of a weakened immune system.

For myself, the weight just melted off once I cut gluten from my diet. Then I started to gain again after my little one started breastfeeding.

Now, I'm not really worrying about a diet to take the weight back off (because of all the 'lose 30lbs in 30 days for hundreds of $$$ scams running around. Plus I refuse to give up real food just to fit into a size 8 pants - diet shakes are for when you for whatever reason can't eat, if you ask me). What I am doing is keeping a food journal, and getting out for walks more. I didn't figure it would make a lot of difference, but it really has because my biggest issue is boredom snacking.

I'm not ashamed of being heavier than I was pre-baby (and even post baby - I was back at my pre-preg weight for 5 weeks after L'il R was born), but I know that this isn't the shape my body is meant to be.

[serpentrose]

It's hard not to be prickly when you frequently deal with people treating you like crap because you don't fit their narrow view of what you ought to be. With weight it's made worse because most people don't have a reasonable idea of what being in good shape really means. Sometimes doctors will refuse to accept that a large person's health problems might not be related to her weight.

There needs to be, in my reasoned opinion, less focus on weight (which is more about appearance than health most of the time) and more focus on being healthier overall.

I've lost a significant amount of weight simply by making a point of eating healthier and getting off my ass more.

[pt_tangles]

Oh, I hear you. I've never been a stick figure, and I don't expect that I ever will be. And I totally agree that people need to focus on being healthy, and to stop seeing weight as a always the cause of ill health and start thinking that it may be a symptom of ill health.

After I learned about my own gluten intolerance, I was shocked to learn about how many people out there may have food intolerances that significantly effect their quality of life, but because the symptoms are so random and spread out, they may never realize it. And medical tests are of little to no help because of how the reactions can present themselves.

It really makes a great case for eating organic and cooking from scratch. And I know that in the states it is WAY worse than it is here because you don't seem to have laws enforcing what companies put in your food (or if you do, then it doesn't seem to be doing very much).

[pj]

I think the difference here is we have a much greater amount of labeling laws rather than ingredient laws. Which really we should have both.

[pt_tangles]

Probably. Last August our gov't passed another law that requires companies to list wheat/gluten as an allergen. So you know when just about anything is manufactured in a plant that also processes wheat products.

It makes a huge difference. But I do remember when I was in the states last (which granted was a long time ago), nearly everything I looked at has high fructose corn syrup listed in the ingredients.

[pt_tangles]

I wasn't done with that comment :/ - anyway, I checked the same products in Canadian grocery stores and that ingredient specifically was not in them.

I think that part of the driving force behind our labelling laws is that an unhealthy populace is a financial burden on the gov't. For the states, unhealthy people make the drug/insurance companies and doctors money. When the gov't has to pay for health care, they have a vested interest in keeping you healthy.

[pj]

Well, with the national health insurance act that may very well change here, too, which would be wonderful. :-)

As for HFSC - corn as a crop is a HUGE business here and getting rid of that is problematic in hundreds of ways.

[pt_tangles]

I hope so too. It seems ridiculous in a dozen different ways to keep your people sickly. Even if it makes money in the short run, having an unhealthy populace cannot be good for the long term.

[pj]

An even bigger issue is here in the states people get awfully twitchy when they feel the government is telling them what to do when it comes to eating. There is no quick fix. Plus obesity is not just in the states, so it is a global mind shift, also, in countries wealthy enough to not worry about starving.

[pj]

That's where the labeling laws have come in handy. HFCS is listed for those who wish to avoid it. Gluten has been on the label for a long time and in the last five(?) years (I am certain of the last 3 years) voluntary labeling of "gluten/wheat free" has appeared all over the place and stating when a product is manufactured in a place where gluten exists.

My uncertainty arises in regards to time because I only started paying attention when a coven mate appeared who is gluten allergic.

[pt_tangles]

Gluten free is becoming a fad diet here, so the advertisement of 'gluten free' is popping up everywhere. I tend to look on it the same way as the 'fat free gummy candy' of the 90s. Gluten free potato chips doesn't make them healthy.

It's so weird for me to think of 2009 as 3 years ago. I still think of 2006 as 3 or 4 years ago.

[pj]

The first time I saw "gluten free" on a bag of potato chips I laughed out loud in the grocery aisle. First - no shit, it is potatoes, salt, and oil. Second - nice marketing ploy. I bet it works, too!

My favorite munchie is Nut*Thins crackers for satisfying crunch, flavour, and lesser calories. My gluten free friend has opened up my snack habits in a good way.

[serpentrose]

I've been skinny and I've been fat. I don't know what my weight peaked at because at the time I never weighed myself. The healthiest I've ever felt was at a time when I was overweight. (Probably still am, but since my bathroom scale died I don't weigh myself anymore.)

I'd really hate it if I discovered I had a serious food intolerance, one of the reasons I like living here in Toronto (Canada) is the variety of foods available.

It's also easier to eat plenty of fruits and vegetables when you can get to a greengrocer and back in under ten minutes, under five if you know exactly what you want and there isn't a lineup.

The amount of stuff I cook from scratch has increased over time, with a big boost when money was tight enough that I had to make every penny count. I've discovered that I love to cook, and I love to eat. I just make sure to eat mostly healthy foods and stop when I'm full.

[pt_tangles]

Oh, I'm SO jealous! I've heard Toronto has great farmers markets. Since I've moved to Calgary, the selection has become a lot slimmer than when I lived in BC. Lots of cheap beef and pork here, tho. But I miss the fresh berries by the bucketful ;)

[pj]

While I agree with all of your points I do agree with Star Foster that the "debate" is bogus when it comes to "what should we do about fat Pagans?" It really is none of the community's business if someone is fat.

[pj]

I'd like to add to my comment - I certainly feel differently when someone seeks assistance from the community or if you pull a loved one aside to discuss if weight is a causative factor in morbidity. I meant a big public debate in terms or *what to do* broad scale is bogus.

[pt_tangles]

I agree completely. From what I understand is that it started because someone well known and overweight had died suddenly. I didn't recognize the name, so I can't say, but I don't think that having concern for people in your life that you care about (or even people in your community who may be suffering health problems, because you never really know, whatever size they may be) is automatically trolling.

When someone dies young, people look for a reason. It's human nature. I think it would be much more useful to approach it as an education issue rather than assuming that everyone who opens their mouth is purposely seeking to shame overweight people.

It seems hypocritical for people who are all about interfaith education to freak on everyone about something that is obvious ignorance. There is malice out there, but that doesn't mean that everyone who makes a call for healthier living is out to get you. KWIM?

[pj]

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. :-)