Is Paganism an "Interest"?

[pt_tangles]

In poking around yesterday and today (mostly on MysticWicks - they are big and I can usually find an interesting topic there ... if not an interesting discussion), I stumbled across one of those "What's wrong with raising your kids Pagan?" threads.  One thing I noticed in many of the responses of people who were in the 'not raising kids Pagan' camp was the phrase, "If my children choose to share my interest, I will include them".

This is something I have seem before, but it struck me today how strange a thought that is.  I don't know about anyone else, but my religion is a hell of a lot more to me than an 'interest'.  It is a huge part of my life.  It shapes who I am and how I see and interact with the world. 

If you have found a spiritual home, why would you want to hide it from your children?  How would you spend holidays/Sabbats?  Send them to a sitter?

--Phae

Comments

[irenejericho.livejournal.com]

That ~is~ extremely odd. I can understand being cool with introducing one's child to other religions when they're old enough to understand them and then allowing them to choose their own path, of course. But raising them as somehow separate from what we believe? Definitely peculiar. O_o

[pt_tangles]

I think I understand waiting to introduce your kids to religion until they are older, but I am not sure I agree with it.

I think that three or four is probably old enough to begin including them in your religious world. I figure that is probably the age that they are able to be included in more kid-friendly crafts and celebrations of the Sabbats.

Even if it is just finger painting and running through the yard with a length of ribbon, or opening presents and colouring holiday pictures.

--Phae

[irenejericho.livejournal.com]

I'm actually a big proponent of including children in ritual and celebration from infancy. I think they add a lot to the process. I just do the 'permeable barrier' with circle if we have a young'un so they can leave if they get fussy. Learning appropriate conduct in ritual comes from repeated exposure to it, so I feel kids do best when raised in circle from the very beginning.

[droops.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, religion IS an interest, but it's more than that as you say. I wonder about what pagans are thinking. Some may have bad memories of childhoods as Christians, for example, and don't want to 'force' their kids to endure something like they had to endure. Others may be taking the "it's a choice" or "we don't convert" thinking to the point of not even telling their kids.

But I have to wonder at the wisdom of that. My stepson has NO interest in religion. I suppose that's his choice, but the fact that he's had no exposure to hardly any is part of the reason. And, with my wife mildy Christian at best, it means our family doesn't do much together in terms of religious practices. We tolerate one another's beliefs (or lack thereof), but don't do much.

And I do think that is a problem, because it means the family isn't as much of a family as it should be.

[pt_tangles]

I dunno. I don't think it is something that can be classified as an interest. A person's faith should be something that they are drawn to. Not just something that they find 'interesting'.

For example, I've never heard of someone spending their lives searching for a hobby. Or for that perfect cup of coffee. A spiritual identity is something wholly different, IMO.

I think you are right that it might have to do with old scars. But, I can't see the wisdom of denying your children a spiritual life until their are old enough to feel the lack on their own.

And I am talking more about kids who are born to parents who are already Pagan, here. I do realize that the situation is different if you convert after they are already here.

Who knows. Maybe my view is skewed because I don't have kids yet.

--Phae

[gessatrude.livejournal.com]

No...I don't hide it from him, I just don't include him.

My son is nominally christian. He was started out that way by my mother, and I didn't see fit to change it. Then again, I didn't see fit to tell my family I was pagan till he was 8 or 9.

He shows interest in my religious path, and we talk about it. But I'd definately fall into the camp of "if he ever showed an interest in it sure, but not till then"...though probably for different reasons than the majority of the people on MW.

[pt_tangles]

Really? I have to say that you might be the first Heathen I've known who thought that way (to be fair though, I don't have a huge list of Heathens that I know). It always seemed to me that Norse faiths really had so much more activity in the way of families and communities than Witchcraft based ones do.

--Phae

[dbmyrrha.livejournal.com]

I don't find that to be true, outside Wicca, which is an adults-only Tradition.

Our trad is very family oriented, and we've often had infants and kids as young as 5 in ritual with us.

Since our tradition is all-encompassing, and built on lore and symbols, I don't see why my kid won't be told the tales, sung the songs, and danced round the ring.

If they choose to go elsewhere as adults, that's fine.

[pt_tangles]

Fair enough, though I don't have a lot of experience with TIW either.

I have always heard people complain that outside of Norse and Reclaiming that there really isn't much out there for kids. But, I don't have kids, so I wouldn't know from first hand experience.

Maybe it is just about how hard you are looking.

--Phae

[dbmyrrha.livejournal.com]

I think it's more about what you are willing to do, and about what you can see "hidden in plain sight." TIW aren't very religious, but we are deeply spiritual, and not irreligious. For us, Mother Goose and the Brothers Grimm are sacred texts. Therefore, all well-read children are potentially one of us. However, only certain children will have the spark stricken within them, and grow up Witches.

Not all are called, and none are coerced.

[pt_tangles]

I agree. Though, there is a certain element of re-inventing the wheel with a lot of folks. Some people seem more willing to do it all themselves rather than find what is out there.

Though, I suppose the same can be said of anyone who is Eclectic (self-included). ;)

--Phae

[jalilifer.livejournal.com]

If my children choose to share my interest, I will include them".

............

I find this odd on two major counts:

1. Isn't one's religion a bit more than an "interest"? My Christianity is my faith; my spiritual backbone, not just something I find interesting.

2. The idea of letting children "find" their own religion at a young age seems a bit ridiculous, to me. A spiritual journey starts with spiritual education. The only spiritual education which I can comfortably offer my children is the spiritual reality I live. So this is where their education begins. I believe that children need to be guided through their education (can you tell that I'm not a fan of "unschooling"? Homeschooling works for me, but I don't "get" unschooling at all), and that this includes spiritual/religious education.

[pt_tangles]

Unschooling?

--Phae

Unschooling is...

[dbmyrrha.livejournal.com]

teaching without a "plan" or curriculum. It works, but only with very motivated parents, who offer their children a lot of different opportunities for learning. I've seen it work, and I've seen it...not work. :(

[jalilifer.livejournal.com]

Basically, it's child-led learning:

http://www.unschooling.com/library/faq/index.shtml

While it might work for some kids, it's not for everybody. I know that if I were "unschooled", my education would be very limited...I definitely needed the push of a system to get me engaged with mathematics and science.

[dbmyrrha.livejournal.com]

unfortunately, many pagans are very casual about their "spirituality."

Also, "Paganism" is not really a discrete spiritual path in and of itself. For many "pagans," paganism *is* just an interest. They have no practice, no developed customs or ways. Also, many such pagans are in multi-faith marriages. Some are even in the closet about their "faith."

I don't even really identify myself as a pagan, anymore. I'm a heathen, I guess. Much more in line with the Northern ways, as many Celts are.

[pt_tangles]

For many "pagans," paganism *is* just an interest.

That is just sad.

--Phae

[dbmyrrha.livejournal.com]

I don't disagree with you. It's part of the reason I no longer identify myself as "pagan" except, occasionally, out of habit.

Great discussion point

[pjvj.livejournal.com]

Damn I just saw this is I about to close my browser (I've not been on for about 5 days) and yeah no shit(!) to is being Pagan an interest instead of a religion/path. I can't wait to read the responses later.

Sadly we all know people for whom "pagan" is simply an interest.