Crankiness

[pt_tangles]

First, I just want to say that I love this icon so much that the next time somebody pisses me off in public (ok, maybe not at work), I am going to yell, "Yeah? Well, you're a smelly Pirate Hooker!" at them from across the room and watch their faces turn bright red as they try to figure out what I have been smoking and not sharing! LOL

Now, on to the crankiness ... WTF is wrong with people, anyway? From 'You're not a Wiccan unless you fit into my very narrow non-Wiccan definition of a Wiccan' crap to all the 'You're an idiot because you think that there might be consequences for you being an 'Out and Proud' Pagan in American society. I mean GAWD! There are LAWZ, duh!'

Uh, huh. I am really beginning to believe that this sort of 'I am right and you are stupid' attitude comes from spending too much time online and not enough out in the sunshine. Lack of vitamin D, maybe.

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO CARE WHAT THEY DO WITH THEIR OWN SELVES?????(...2, 3, 4 ... yup, that should be enough). Srsly (and yes, I say it like that), walk you own path. Worry about your own self. You try to live everyone else's life and walk everyone else's path and all you are going to get is blisters.

Grrr. No more communities or message boards for me for a while. *sheesh* What's worse, is I know just what it is like to think that way.

So, let's see. In my years as a Witch, I have been a Ravenwolfite, a Poor Persecuted Pagan, a Know-It-All-Pissy-Fit, a Hippie Earth Child, a Gawth Dark Witch, an Eclectic Wiccan (yup, I'm going there. Try to stop me.), a Kitchen Witch with an insatiable lust for kitchen gadgetry, and a somewhat FamTrad Matriarch. I be havin' some serious blisters!

But, it all comes back around. I am me. I am an Aquarius. I have learned from where I have been, and I have lived to tell the tale!

On the plus side, I saw a bumble bee today.

--Phae

Comments

[droops.livejournal.com]

I have a larger version of my icon pic here, which might be appropriate for some of the people of which you speak. :)

[pt_tangles]

I had a bit of an epiphany last night after I went to bed. I've got to get back to work now, but I'll post about it later :)

--Phae

[pjvj.livejournal.com]

>>>'You're an idiot because you think that there might be consequences for you being an 'Out and Proud' Pagan in American society. I mean GAWD! There are LAWZ, duh!'<<<

If you're referring to the poster who compared "letting people know" she is pagan while living in Massachusetts is similar to the woman being beaten by her village in India because they called her witch, then I think the above sentence should not have such a benign word as "consequences" in it. :P~

I remember a time when you would have been one of the people telling the OP off for exaggerated claims of persecution. I understand you may have very well no longer feel a need to do that, but does that mean everyone has to be done with it, also?

As an aside, I didn't post to that thread, but I think the comparison she made was quite poor and she later admitted she had not expressed herself clearly. She was actually rather gracious about it which was nice to see.

[pt_tangles]

I am very well aware of that, Pj. See how I mention it in the last half of my post?

The point is that whenever someone posts anything about worrying about what might happen to them if they were to come out of the broom closet, the replies are ALWAYS 'OMG teh Burnin Tiems!' No one EVER posts anything about what actual problems there are in the states.

It's the same thing that happens whenever anyone makes the news because of this sort of thing. Remember what happened when that girl was in the news last Beltane because she got kicked out of school for drawing a pentacle on her face?

She was scorned more online that in her high school. Until someone who knew her personally mentioned that she had actually had to resort to that because the teachers kept taking her pentacle necklace away from her.

No one wants to believe that there is anything to worry about, so they make fun of those who may not know what is out there, but are worried about facing intolerance nonetheless.

I think we saw at Yule all the good laws will do for you if you police force or the courts don't feel like enforcing them.

Just because you won't be publicly beaten, doesn't mean that there aren't real problems that are out there waiting for you. And for someone who doesn't know what they are getting in to, I don't think that they should be glossed over like that.

--Phae

[pjvj.livejournal.com]

>>>I am very well aware of that, Pj. See how I mention it in the last half of my post?<<<

Very well of what, Phae? What did I miss? Did you mean this part and what followed: "WHY DO YOU HAVE TO CARE WHAT THEY DO WITH THEIR OWN SELVES?????" If so, I was asking you the same question. I think everyone chooses, or not, when to "interfere" and when to stand away.

As to the rest, I don't recall denying there are any problems ever by being pagan. I simply stated that comparing "letting people know" you are pagan is not anywhere near on the same scale as being beaten by your village because they call you a witch (which has a different meaning, only negative in African and Middle Eastern countries). That *was* my point. I find that comparison out of proportion regardless of some small town in the Midwest that removed a pentacle display after it was vandalized. (Is that the Yule story you meant? Because that was stupid from beginning to end - no religious items should have been there, IMO.) I find the vandalism act not on the same scale as the village beating nor the girl who painted a pentacle on her face (a story I did not know about). My main point was don't scream "Fire!!" for a candle. They are not the same. It helps no-one in the pagan community in their efforts to get along in society when one uses such tactics to describe their experiences when they are blatant exaggerations.

I've not encountered discrimination for being pagan and I live in a very backwards mainly Xian state as far as religion goes. I don't think my experience is the only experience that exists, but persecution on the level that occurred in that village is rare. Weirdos and extreme cases make the news here. We have 300 million people living here - I expect some aberrations as horrid as those aberrations can be.

Trying to justify one's life choices of how one practices their religion should be based on their inner compass and an accurate understanding of their surrounding community. Clinton, Mass. is not a village waiting to beat her for her religious choice. If she ever wants to be comfortable in her chosen path a reality check now is a lot kinder than her spouting that to her locals down the line. Telling others you feared "coming out" based your perception of them having a mob mentality willing to beat a person for their religious choice is not a way to live in community.

>>>The point is that whenever someone posts anything about worrying about what might happen to them if they were to come out of the broom closet, the replies are ALWAYS 'OMG teh Burnin Tiems!' No one EVER posts anything about what actual problems there are in the states.<<<

I saw more helpful replies than just burning times ones. *shrug*

[pt_tangles]

The part I meant was this part --> "What's worse, is I know just what it is like to think that way." and the rest that followed.

Further, I get that it was an extreme comparison, and there are lots of other things that have happened to Pagans in the states, those were just the two that I thought of right then.

I think that making light of what can happen to you in your own community in North America is a little like waving a fan at the candle that just lit your drapes on fire. It doesn't help anyone either.

Her reality check could have easily been given by at least acknowledging that her fears, while extreme, were not baseless. Assuming that the public will accept and welcome you is just as bad as people who spout off about being forever persecuted. It leaves you wholly unprepared to lose your job or your kids or have your house vadalized or have your pets tortured and killed.

Or, if you want to go less extreme still, how about just having your family and friends shun you? Is that something that is acceptable just because you aren't being physically beaten?

Knowing what you might actually have to face is better than the 'dressing down' that has become standard practise in the online Pagan Community. And yes, she did accept it graciously, but she shouldn't have had to.

And I don't really think that being frustrated at watching the Community tear apart another newbie is really the same as wondering why they feel the need to do that in the first place.

I'm not upset at you at all. Actually, I'm not upset at all anymore. I just don't agree with how the online Pagan Community expresses itself anymore. I guess I am just not in a position to be a part of it anymore.

--Phae

[pjvj.livejournal.com]

I guess we just read the whole encounter - well as of yesterday which is when I read it and most posts were civil - with entirely different filters. If someone approached me with that type of fear (of beating) I'd be backing away quickly and avoiding them at all costs. I'm certain that would play into their persecution complex and feed it more. That's why I see it as very non-productive along with being not accurate.

Sure, some families shun you for religious reasons (none of the pagans I've met in my area have had that happen, but I've heard of it online), but families are likely to shun for other reasons than religions. Those other reasons I have seen IRL.

>>>The part I meant was this part --> "What's worse, is I know just what it is like to think that way." and the rest that followed.<<<

I thought you meant you thought like the OP. Did you mean you thought like the people "straightening her out"?

>>>I think that making light of what can happen to you in your own community in North America is a little like waving a fan at the candle that just lit your drapes on fire. It doesn't help anyone either.<<<

The fact that something can happen to you (and happenings such as that are pretty rare) in no way translates to something that needs to be internalized to the point of keeping you in the broom closet. Mountain out of a molehill, worrywart, etc. is my opinion on that.

Few people lose their job, kids, and have their pets tortured and killed. Those are exceedingly rare and worrying over them is a waste of precious energy and detrimental to the self if there are absolutely no indicators in your community that someone is gunning for you. Perhaps if her fear was grounded in more common occurrences, like say a Xian smiling, nodding and with a knowing wink announcing they would pray for their soul or an atheist telling you your Deities are invisible friends she would have gotten different answers. Maybe not. I am not very familiar with the comm "pagan" here on LJ.

I'm not mad, either. I just think people who exaggerate the persecution make it very difficult for those few who actually do suffer it to be taken seriously. Pulling out distant horror stories to justify their inaction grates on me. Self responsibility seems to point to if you choose to be in the closet, own it and live with it and move on, not point fingers to far away places or aberrations to "prove" your choices are valid.

Maybe I'm becoming a crotchety old crone. :P~

[pt_tangles]

I think that the difference is that it didn't sound like a persecution complex to me. It sounded like someone who didn't know any better.

And while the problems with being Pagan may not happen often where you or I live, it doesn't mean that those people are actually few and far between. It's often in the news upwards of at least once a month. And those are only the ones that end up in the paper. How much more goes on that isn't reported or doesn't seem sensational enough to be news worthy?

I agree that the person needs to grow and learn and accept their own responsibility in how they live. But really, what newbie doesn't need to do that? Being nervous and unsure is part of being new.

What I expect in the way of attitudes from people who have only been learning about Witchcraft for a year or two is a whole lot less than I would expect from someone with years of practise under her belt.

I don't really think that they can be judged with the same yard stick. I mean, it's a little like expecting a student driver to be as confident as proffessional race car driver.

Anyway, the rant was about the general tone of internet communities. It wasn't based soley on this one case. It's starting to resemble an epidemic of random, unneeded bitchiness.

--Phae

[pjvj.livejournal.com]

>>>I think that the difference is that it didn't sound like a persecution complex to me. It sounded like someone who didn't know any better.<<<

That is our filters maybe. I didn't see "newbie", I saw a person wanting to warm herself under the blanket of persecution so she has excuses for her choices.

I don't see true persecution of pagans in the papers once a month, either. Maybe you live in a rough part of your country. :P~

[pt_tangles]

They're your guys' papers, not mine (via the Wild Hunt).

You have to be more interesting than just a plain vanilla Witch to make the papers here. Even pink hair won't do it :(

--Phae

[pjvj.livejournal.com]

Oh, I have the Wildhunt blog on a feed. I saw someone is pursuing the religious items on government property thing. It would be nice if they just came down on the side of side of "none" so as not to appear to endorse any, but I fear they may come down on the side of "all or none" which just means more stupid shit everywhere. Really - can you see a place if everyone participates? Displays cluttering up everything. Damn.

[pt_tangles]

Yeah, that would be nice, but gods forbid that anyone go without their right to push their beliefs on someone else.

In our town, city hall puts lights in the trees, bushes and building. And nobody cares that they have a 'Merry Christmas' sign. If they weren't too cheap to replace the burnt out bulbs, it would be a nice display :P

--Phae

[pjvj.livejournal.com]

That's the way it used to be here. I don't know what the heck happened to people. I'm fine with Happy Holidays, I don't spit on people who wish me a Merry Xmas and if City Hall wants lights on their trees more power to them. Now the big news story every December (repeated throughout the month) is either customers complaining that store clerks only say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Xmas" and certain retailers bragging about how they tell their clerks to say "Merry Xmas" only and screw the Jews, Muslims, etc... They phrase that last part nicer, but it comes out the same. Hey, here's an idea - how about "Thanks for dropping your cash in my store instead of the one next door" as something to say. I'll take that over a "Happy Holidays" any day of the week.

[pt_tangles]

When I worked retail I didn't say either. 'Have a nice day' works on any day of the year.

--Phae

[pjvj.livejournal.com]

I've been in retail .. well, forever. lol. I finally tired of "Have a nice day" and have changed it to "Enjoy the rest of your day!" Yes, my work life is that sad. :P~

[pt_tangles]

LOL - the majority of the emails I write are telling people that I caught them doing something they shouldn't be, so they end with 'We appreciate your cooperation.'

--Phae