pt_tangles | New Forum Idea

May 2017

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As many of you know, PW is sinking again, and I am not entirely certain that I am going to make the effort to save it. Most have jumped ship, and those who remain are infrequent posters at best (except of course for the ever verbous LadyK).

And I am sure that most of you have seen me complain about PC, which has become and will continue to become nothing at all like I wanted it to be (already it has failed to provide a place where Mysteries can be discussed without someone or other comparing those trads to dangerous and useless cults). Honestly, and without any sour grapes, I just don't think that there is enough in common between the creators/maintainers' vision and mine to make it a place where I could feel at home.

This makes me long for TT. I miss it. I miss everyone who was there, and I miss the Witch-focussed conversations that we had. I was thinking a bit about the idea that was tossed around the first time I was bucking at the core concepts of PC - creating my own forum. I have some time on my hands, and I could create a place that could strive to fill the hole TT left in me.

I was even thinking of names (names help to cement concepts for me), and what sort of tribute I could make to TT. I came up with Wickets. Simple word smooshing. I looked it up, just to make sure that there weren't any meanings that I didn't want associated with the site (I knew about wickets in cricket and croquet), and I found this: A small door or gate, especially one built into or near a larger one.

I think that is about the perfect image for what I am going for here (we all remember what the front page image of TT was ... Wickets made me think of This). I will have to do some research on what I will need in the way of software and hosting, but I think that Wickets has already had the first breath of life breathed into it. I am excited to see what this brainchild will become.

--Phae

Current Mood: creative

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I'm not giving up on PC yet. I'm enjoying the "intiation requirements" thread, even if half of it seems to be devoted to "yes, there are actually requirements in some traditions, including requirements that no employment agency would legally be allowed to make."

(I have to fight to keep from saying, "you don't like such requirements? Very simple solution: don't join those groups. Myself, I don't like groups that require vows of abstinence and chastity... note my non-Carmelite nun membership.")

But Wickets sounds good. (Can it be subtitled "Home of the Ubiquitous Others?") Beehive software, or something like that, maybe?

I think TC's problem(s) with the software had to do with activity level more than anything else, and this would be smaller.

More nifty wicket pics: http://www.poppyland.co.uk/index.php?s=KINGS_LYNN, http://www.saxonshorebenefice.fsnet.co.uk/thornham.htm (both churches), doors for urban fairies.

I kinda like that "door within a door" thing. Implies there's a big door for everyone... and a smaller one for just those who need it.

I'll still go there (I have been slowly making my way back), but it won't ever be what I want it to be. I can see that, and as much as it sucks, I don't think that there is much I can do about it.

And yeah, I think that 'Home of the Ubiquitous Others' would be a great subtitle ;)

Beehive is about the only software I know how to run, so that would prolly be what I go with. I would like to see if it can show profile images the way PW does. That would be cool.

TWO is fairly small too, and we do ok with Beehive. I don't expect that Wickets would get as big as TC, especially since I want it to be a forum that has more of a Witchcraft bent rather than a multi-Pagan bent (not to say that it still wouldn't be interfaith, but you know what I mean).

--Phae

Yay!! The Ubiquitous Others! lol

Wickets is cute, but not sickly-sweet cute. And it being Witchy as opposed to "everyone who has an interest in even the mildest form of watered down Paganism" is still, sadly, a niche not yet filled.

And yeah - P/W is going downhill fast. (Went?)

P/C will probably grow, but threads will continue to be like the initiation one - endless explaining, defensive manuevering, and someone in particlular being purposefully obtuse and dragging in tangents. That has its purpose, also, but it is not a primary focus that I have right now - I hate having to be repetitive unless it is due to a lack of clarity. There seemed to be no lack of clarity from the people answering. See the difference between one Osthein who asks successive questions based on previous answers and one IG who asks the same over and over no matter how many times she is answered? Even Jenett got peeved! Wow.

Yeah, I was hoping that PC would hit the 'talking about mysteries without having to defend/explain the concept' mark for me, but I don't really see that happening now. IG seems to have made it her mission to show how dangerous and irresponsible trads are. Which I don't think is going to make her any friends.

Really, the Witchy focussed board was what I was looking for with PC. I get that not everyone else was. And rather than try to force my will or create a niche within the PC community, I would prefer to create something that will benefit everyone. Somewhere if people like IG show up, we can answer them once, but fall back on 'I am not going to justify this practise to you, if you don't like it, go somewhere else'. And maybe provide a link to PW - LOL

--Phae

>>>And maybe provide a link to PW - LOL<<<

Bwahahaha!

I originally thought that PC was going to be different than it is. I understand it fills some people's needs. I also understand on some days and in some ways it fills mine since I don't want to be completely cut off from "those not like me". Like you, though, I want more without the hassle.

I am trying with PC. I really am. I am trying to participate, but the people there don't really know me, and I don't like having to try and sort out who is IG's and/or Mari's crony. Sometimes I swear it is like they have multiple accounts.

Because they don't know me, they don't understand where I am coming from, and they assume that I am automatically attacking something/someone/whatever, when I am simply discussing it.

I would rather be able to be comfortable on a forum instead of having to make sure that I write in a proper 'business' tone so that no one decides to be offended because I think that religion is more than a point of view.

That sort of effort to have a conversation with people (half of whom I have no interest in conversing with) is really not worth it for me. I want somewhere that is for us. Like it used to be.

Somewhere were even if something doesn't come out right, folks still generally know what you mean, and seek to help you develop ideas rather than just shooting them down.

--Phae

I think it comes down to, for some things, we need a "fellowship type" forum. Not a sweetness and light, nobody disagree forum, but not a challenge every notion ad nauseum forum. I'm beginning to see they cannot co-exist. Fine. we need an in-between forum. We'll build another. lol

In all honesty, I dislike the pagancrossroads. I have nothing in common other than I do magic. I do not feel like I belong there.

1) because I am not looking really for a tradition or path

2) I do nto have enough knowledge about trads or paths other than what I have gleaned from you guys

3) I do not trust a couple of hte people not to pull rank or "we made this place a reality, we should more power" card.

I am trying to like it, but in reality, I do not want to discuss magic or witchcraft with atheists. I cannot relate to gwyddion stuff, and I do not feel I have anything to contribute that I care to post there.

I think Wicket is neat. I miss TT and never felt comfortable at TC.

I know beehive is used a lot, what about the software that ravingfire person was using?

I don't really know what software that was. I never bothered to go to any of ERF's sites.

--Phae

P.S. I like Beehive. I also have an empty Delphi forum that I grandfathered in way back when.

I am having a great deal of difficulty with PC. I am very close to resigning as staff. I Really Really want to 'start over'.

I have a very underused Dreamhost account. Adding another domain to the account would only be a few dollars a year. As long as bandwidth didn't get too outrageous (or if it did, as long as a few folks could chip into the kitty to cover it), I'd be more than willing to host.

I don't have a lot of time to devote to handling the software side right now since I'm in the middle of a software rebuild at work and am putting in way too much time there... but if someone would be willing to help out to get things set up and assist in covering things while I dug out from the current work boondoggle...

Oh - and I really like "Wickets" as well. Both for the connotations that could be linked to Craft, as well as the mental pictures it brought up for me.

Do we need an LJ community (locked, of course) for planning, or do we want to make use of the YahooGroups list that Robin started way back when about building a forum (UTWFC - Unnamed Trad / Witchcraft Forum Creation (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UTWFC/))?

Ooo, I think I like the idea of a Yahoo group list. The LJ got a little difficult to follow since you couldn't go back to the previous discussions easily.

--Phae

I think you have an excellent idea.

One of the things I think might help is to establish some parameters for what is on and off topic.

I really see nothing constructive in debating the existence of the gods with an atheist who is determined to make us see our dangerous delusions.

Yeah, I am going to be sure to put that sort of thing into the rules. I am not at all interested in being convinced that I am delusional ... personally, I think it is very akin to proselytizing. The only difference is that it is for atheism (or "reason") rather than Christianity.

--Phae

I am not sure reason is the right word. Most mystics that I know are very rational people. Reason keeps us sane.

But pure reason without mysticism, becomes a different form of insanity.

I put it in quotation marks because that seems to be the favorite accusasion from the more hardlined atheists - 'why can't you people listen to reason?'

I would love to figure out what causes some atheists to go after deists like they do. What is it about them than cannot accept that someone else might believe something they don't?

--Phae

Fear.

They have to prove you wrong, because if deists are right then...OMG...the atheist might be going to Hell.

It never occurs to the atheist that at some point in your life you did listen to that reason,...you considered it and other ideas...and then...you came to a different conclusion.

You also have a culture issue of prostylitizing.

Everyone must believe the same thing so we are feel comfortable in our rightness.

Fear I get. I also get that not everyone is about working through and facing their fears, but live and let live, dammit!

I cannot wrap my mind around how people want others (especially those they don't like) to be just like them or else they are bad and therefor *must be stopped*.

*shakes head*

--Phae

And .... one more thing! I think this bears mentioning though. I do not think PC is bad place, nor do I think it will fail miserably as it is set up with the people there. I do however feel strongly it is not the forum I was hoping for. Wickets would fill the TT niche. PC will fill the TC niche (without the mod drama that occurred at TC). I guess there are very good reasons those two split in the first place. They do fulfill differing needs and those needs differ by quite a margin.

I am disappointed that PC cannot fill both niches, but I think they are too divergent to bridge that gap. The reason I don't think PC is a bad forum is because it does fill others' needs, just not some of mine. That saddens me, but I can go to both places for differing needs - Wickets and PC.

I am undecided if it is a 'bad' place. I think that that is too strong a description. I think it is new and I think it is fumbling, but I imagine that it might work out for a few years at least.

I doubt that it will erupt into flames (I think that fire was safely put out early enough), but I won't say that I don't think that it will peter out the way that a zillion other forums do. I think it is in the precarious position of driving anyone who is not Gwyddon or atheist away, and that is something that needs to be fought against if it is going to survive in the long run. KWIM?

--Phae

I believe if it continues to tilt too heavily to "All Gwyddon/Atheist all the time" it will not only not be what it was intended to be by the majority, but it will peter out.

I think the problem is almost always level of discussion.

If you have people with an elementary level of understanding trying to communicate among people who are advanced in understanding , there will be hurt feelings among the newbs and impatience and aggravation among those who would like to take the discussion to a different level.

It is almost predictable.

Reality is most folks can not take the conversation to a higher level without touching on oaths.

Even if you keep the conversation at a mid level, there will be those who are lost in the semantics and just don't, won't or can't get it.

Very hard for people who are in the don't get it stage to moderate those who are walking the path.

Throw in a wide open field for topics and you have a recipe for a troll fest. which can be fun, in a perverse way...if that is what is desired.

I personally have better things to do.

I understand what you are saying. When the "I just don't get it" crowd starts to bluster, they can go bluster in their own thread. Maybe it isn't possible to serve as many needs as we are trying to over at PC, but I think we can serve more of them than we currently are. And still have another forum that though we don't automatically boot out atheists, we clearly give them no reason to hang around.

I am going to play wiht http://www.phpbb.com/ it sounds like it could be good, and its freeware type stuff .

hehe I dont have server to play with... but it sounds easy to use heh.

I thought phpbb was similar in style to PC? I do not like that style. I like the Beehive or Prospero style of board.

not sure really, I do not have a server to play with it on,

but looking at their community area

http://www.phpbb.com/community/

gives an idea of what it looks like, which is a style I am familiar with because of a Supergroup forum for CoH that I am a part of, It does not seem that hard to navigate.

Also it looks like everything is free (except their hosting service which is like 5.95 ifyou go with them)

the forum looks easy to navigate though, and from what I been reading the person using hte software can modify it however they like.

Just an idea though :-)

Yeah, that's the style I really do not like. :P~

LOL well was just an idea;)

I think it is ... I would rather stick with Beehive, myself. It is just easier to deal with and you always know who is talking to you.

--Phae

It occurred to me that perhaps we were not the only people wishing for a forum that was a good mix of TC and TT so I started a thread at PC asking for input based on my personal preference. It is located here: http://www.pagancrossroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=439.msg6745#msg6745

Give us a holler when you have something put up, yeah?

Will do :)

--Phae

I am so tired after today's round of postings. If I have to continue to work this hard I may throw in the towel. ~whine~ When does the fun start? /~whine~

There's fun? LOL

--Phae

I would love something a little closer to TT than to TC. I'm still at TC - if I wanted TC all the time I would have stayed there only. PC is most likely not going to fulfill a niche that TC doesn't for me, and thus I will probably end up wandering off when someone finally does push that button too hard. I want to believe I will stay, but I doubt it.

I want something that is more fellowship than this at least. A place where if a single period is out of place, you don't get screamed at. I'm so tired of having to have my guard up all the time. And I really don't give a rats ass about Gwynwhatever anymore - sick to death of those posts.

/whine /whimper I just want to go home to TT the way it was before powertrips and angst.

Hopefully, within a couple of months, we will have it all back. The great thing about Wickets is that we aren't doing a whole world of different things. Everyone remembers what TT was, and I think that will serve to smooth out things that a brand new moderation model won't.

I figure a staff of about 10, and a couple of different levels of truly private folders (I am not sure how well I like a folder where everyone can read, but only a few can post ... I think that encourages malicious karma punching that wouldn't happen if they could snipe at me vocally). One for close friends, and one for staff so that only a few have to read all the boring stuff (re: lame drama).

--Phae

>>>I am not sure how well I like a folder where everyone can read, but only a few can post<<<

I dislike this more than I can say. I think the folder should be private for the detail stuff, then an open folder for posting "results" of issues, policy decisions, etc. that all members can post to.

I think that would have worked out a lot better. You should suggest it.

--Phae

Tree asked about a closed folder, but people didn't see a need, or that it ruined the transparency aspect, but opening the other folder to all posters wasn't part of the equation. Besides, I'm not an Advocate so it really should not be about what *I* want, KWIM?

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