What Pagans Need

[pt_tangles]

I have been reading a couple of threads in the wiccan  comm about Christian imports, and  in the second thread, someone asked a very specific question that I don't really think many took a very deep look. Do Pagans need mainstream acceptance?

Those who replied to that part said no. Now, if the question had been soley 'do Pagans need mainstream acceptance to have a fulfilling spiritual practise?', then I would agree, but ' why do Pagans need mainstream acceptance at all?'  Well, there are plenty of reasons.  And the conclusion I come to is, that in the US, they absolutely do need some sort of acceptance.

Over the past year and a half I have seen more than I care to of this sort of story: Parent loses custody of their child because they are Pagan of some flavour. We also have stories about teenagers being abused by the faculty of their school and by other students for no other reason than that they are Pagan. People still lose their jobs over this. People still have their homes vandalized and their property destroyed and their pets killed over this.

These days it seems fairly unlikely that there are too many people who don't know what a Pagan or Wiccan is (in the sense of recognizing the word, not in the sense of actually having factual information). That is mainstream recognition. It is big. But not every Pagan was cut out to be one of the Hidden Children. It is for them that I believe we do need to work toward mainstream acceptance ... or at least tolerance.

There have been many who have crossed my path screaming persecution and how there need to be new laws.  Almost every time I have told them that the laws that protect you are already there.  You just have to fight to have them enforced.  I realize that that is not a fight that everyone can win.  I think it is a fight that they shouldn't have to fight alone.

The law is there.  The protection is there.  But so long as those who enforce it believe that any sort of Pagan belief is a fad or a phase, those laws aren't going to be doing what they were intended to do.

If you don't live in the states (and I don't either), then I think the dynamics are different.  Canada's government runs differently than the US's does.  I believe that the States are in a time of upheaval.  It would be really easy to just fall back into the shadows and not deal with it.  But I think that would only serve to make things worse in the long run.  There is still very much the sentiment that if you hide something, it is because you know it is wrong.

It's a catch 22 that needs to be stomped out.

--Phae

Comments

[vicki-sine.livejournal.com]

I currently know 4 pagans who are in law school, or about to take the bar exam.

We don't really need public acceptance, we need more pagan professionals,...especially lawyers, but also psychologists, doctors, police officers, etc...

Professions who need to have a clue handed to them.

[lupagreenwolf.livejournal.com]

Your comment just strengthened my resolve to go grad school to become a therapist.

[pt_tangles]

Sometimes I think that what a lot of Pagans face these days is the reason that there aren't more Pagans in those fields. It becomes a liability that can cost you your career and more. Just look at the rash of teacher firings recently.

Though, I will say that the more people there are who whine about being 'teh pewr persekyooted Pagan', the worse it gets for those who actually are.

--Phae

[lupagreenwolf.livejournal.com]

My main concern as the pagan community becomes more mainstream-acceptable is that we don't ostracize members who cross over into less acceptable subcultures, such as the GLBT community. I don't want to see the pagan community adopt negative memes such as "you have to be straight, vanilla, and cisgendered (not transgendered) to be a part of this!"

As for safety and security, we still have a long way to go. There are still plenty of Americans who think *Jews* are all evil. Pagans may not even be a blip on the screen for these folks, but thanks to the recent pentacle memorial news, I think the community as a whole just got pushed a little further into the limelight.

[pt_tangles]

There is that too. Also, this whole mess with AJ Drew planning to burn the Frosts in effigy is bad PR that we don't need.

--Phae

[vicki-sine.livejournal.com]

Well...yea maybe...but hard to frown on some good clean fun.

I have an admitted burr under my saddle about the Frosts.

But the irony of it being Drew doing it is not lost on me.

The reality is a very large part of the reason for being the Hidden Children is the high granola factor in the "pagan community".

[pt_tangles]

I can't claim to care for them either, but I can't think that this is the way to deal with it. I don't think that publicity stunts are going to help anything.

--Phae

[elf]

That's one of my worries, too.

I'm all for public tolerance and acceptance--but I don't want the message to be "we're SAFE and FRIENDLY and we'd never do anything you really disliked! We're just like you, only with pents instead of crosses!"

I don't want the ecstatic, down-and-dirty paths to be given the same treatment that many drag queens get at Gay Pride-ish events... "well, yes, we have those too... but do they have to be out in front? Can't they just be quiet when we're talking to the media? The press won't understand!"

Doesn't matter if the press understands; we need to fight for tolerance & civil rights regardless of how welcome we'd be in their bridge club meetings.

[pt_tangles]

I agree.

--Phae

[lupagreenwolf.livejournal.com]

There is the concern I've seen voiced that some pagans are worried that the media would, for example, take the most extreme members of the community and try to paint everyone that way. And I can certainly see how a somewhat closeted suburban pagan family with monogamous adults and a couple of young kids wouldn't want everyone else thinking, for example, that all pagans are polyamorous kinky Otherkin neoTantrists. OTOH, while these things aren't a part of paganism overall, they are a part of paganism for some pagans.

It's a delicate balance; some subcultures admittedly aren't as media-friendly (yet, anyway), and I think that having an article coming out saying that all pagans are polyamorous is just as undesirable as an article that says that all *real* pagans are monogamous, and the poly pagans are just screwed up. But I definitely agree with you on the parallel between transphobia in the gay community, and some of the trends in the pagan community.

[thtrelady.livejournal.com]

I think we need mainstream tolerance at least. I don't want to have to live a life of worrying about what the neighbors will do to me if they find out I'm pagan.. not what they think about me because frankly I couldn't care less.. but what they would feel safe doing to me. Now, I don't have that worry - where I am is pretty laid-back and the police would come down like a ton of bricks if there was validism or what have you.

But there are places in the US were that is not true and where your health and livelyhood is in danger if people know you are pagan. That should not be acceptable and it should be something we demand changes. But, we also have to accept that change does not happen overnight and we need to be persistant about the protections we are guarenteed. Loud, but not rude should be the rule.

[pt_tangles]

To be fair, sometimes rude is what forces the change. It shows that you have been stepped on enough times to not permit it again.

--Phae

[(Anonymous)]

Things have been improving in the US of late. Note the settlement of the VA-headstone-pentacle suits. And a few years back a federal lawsuit against the Michigan Department of Corrections alleging unequal treatment of Wiccans in the Michigan prison system included a statement that the Michigan DOC was willing to stipulate that Wicca is a legitimate religion, so that that question would not need to be argued before the court.

[pt_tangles]

Hello, and you are?

There have been advances, I'll grant you that, but I think that the over all tone of feeling toward Pagans in general does not seem to be gaining ground. Pagans didn't win the Veterans pentacle case on their own. They had the support of many other mainstream faiths on their side.

Somehow I can't help but think that the outcome would have been different if Pagans hadn't had any of that backing.

--Phae

[brock-tn.livejournal.com]

That previous post was supposed to be from me, but my work computer seems to have forgotten it was supposed to sign me in to LJ when I surfed over there.

[pt_tangles]

Oh good :) I have been getting some weird messages from anonymous folks today.

--Phae